Latin in The Passion of The Christ

[David Eugenius]

Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:

We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in Mel
Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak in
his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must admit, to
hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the work
of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and coached
the actors?

Vale.

[Edward Casey]

Post by David Eugenius
We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in Mel
Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak in
his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must admit, to
hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the work
of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and coached
the actors?
Vale.

I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling about
his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed their
lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after the
first try.

Eduardus

[bob]

Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:42:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Latin in The Passion of The Christ

Post by David Eugenius
We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in

Mel

Post by David Eugenius
Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak

in

Post by David Eugenius
his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must

admit, to

Post by David Eugenius
hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the

work

Post by David Eugenius
of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and

coached

Post by David Eugenius
the actors?
Vale.

I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling about
his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed their
lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after the
first try.
Eduardus

I'm curious about the AAramaic: is it the Aramaic of first century Palestine
or is it the later Syriac version of the Peshitta, the Aramaic gospels?

Bob

[David Eugenius]

"bob" <***@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BC6A8709.60E%***@ix.netcom.com...
|
| >
| > "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| > news:nX61c.21562$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| >> Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
| >>
| >> We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in
| > Mel
| >> Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus
speak
| > in
| >> his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| > admit, to
| >> hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate.

|
| I'm curious about the AAramaic: is it the Aramaic of first century
Palestine
| or is it the later Syriac version of the Peshitta, the Aramaic gospels?
|
| Bob
|

Rodericanus Roberto sal.

I've read two articles on the Aramaic usage, and both say this is a
"calculated guess" at how the language would have sounded back in the first
century. Here are the articles:

"What's up with Aramaic?": http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8038021.htm
"Assyrians hear native tongue in 'Passion'":
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8044054.htm

Fr. Fulco must have had more difficulty with Aramaic, I would suppose.

Dom. tecum.

[David Eugenius]

"David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:FRr1c.38734$***@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
|
| "bob" <***@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
| news:BC6A8709.60E%***@ix.netcom.com...
| |
| | >
| | > "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| | > news:nX61c.21562$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| | >> Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
| | >>
| | >> We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in
| | > Mel
| | >> Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus
| speak
| | > in
| | >> his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| | > admit, to
| | >> hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate.
|
| |
| | I'm curious about the AAramaic: is it the Aramaic of first century
| Palestine
| | or is it the later Syriac version of the Peshitta, the Aramaic gospels?
| |
| | Bob
| |
|
| Rodericanus Roberto sal.
|
| I've read two articles on the Aramaic usage, and both say this is a
| "calculated guess" at how the language would have sounded back in the
first
| century. Here are the articles:
|
| "What's up with Aramaic?":
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8038021.htm

| "Assyrians hear native tongue in 'Passion'":
| http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8044054.htm
|
| Fr. Fulco must have had more difficulty with Aramaic, I would suppose.
|
| Dom. tecum.
|
|

Bob and Aramaic Buffs:

I just noticed on the latest Explorator (6.44, 29 Feb.) some links to other
articles on the Aramaic and "Passion" connection:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3488046.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/nyregion/24NYC.html
http://tinyurl.com/ypgku (Jerusalem Post)
http://tinyurl.com/2u6q2 (Voice of America)

Dvd. Eu. Rodericanus

[David Eugenius]

"Edward Casey" <***@cpinternet.com> wrote in message news:***@corp.supernews.com...
|
| "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| news:nX61c.21562$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| > Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
| >
| > We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in
| Mel
| > Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak
| in
| > his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| admit, to
| > hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the
| work
| > of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
| coached
| > the actors?
| >
| > Vale.
| >
| >
|
| I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling about
| his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
| probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
| actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed their
| lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after the
| first try.
|
| Eduardus
|

Eudardus, is that how they call what we have today: "restored
pronunciation"? I'm sure any attempt is an approximation and there is no
"correct" pronunciation, but how much of a consensus is there among scholars
today on the matter of pronunciation? And also, to what criteria do they
appeal (e.g., pronunciations in Romance languages)?

[Edward Casey]

Post by David Eugenius
|
| >
| > We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in
| Mel
| > Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak
| in
| > his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| admit, to
| > hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the
| work
| > of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
| coached
| > the actors?
| >
| > Vale.
| >
| >
|
| I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling about
| his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
| probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
| actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed their
| lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after the
| first try.
|
| Eduardus
|
Eudardus, is that how they call what we have today: "restored
pronunciation"? I'm sure any attempt is an approximation and there is no
"correct" pronunciation, but how much of a consensus is there among scholars
today on the matter of pronunciation? And also, to what criteria do they
appeal (e.g., pronunciations in Romance languages)?

I understand that there is virtually a universal consensus that the
restored pronunciation more or less approximates to the pronunciation the
clubbable in the city of Rome in late republican times, a least compared
to the modern ecclesiastical pronunciation. The last prominent latinist
who thought otherwise was the great Antonio Bacci (more a paragon of style
than a historical glottologist). To his credit, he came around to the
current view on the matter after being presented with the evidence. See W.
Sidney Allen's "Vox Latina."

Eduardus

[David Eugenius]

"Edward Casey" <***@cpinternet.com> wrote in message news:***@corp.supernews.com...
|
| "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| news:Yts1c.23571$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| >
| > "Edward Casey" <***@cpinternet.com> wrote in message
| > news:***@corp.supernews.com...
| > |
| > | "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| > | news:nX61c.21562$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| > | > Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
| > | >
| > | > We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some
| in
| > | Mel
| > | > Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus
| speak
| > | in
| > | > his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| > | admit, to
| > | > hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge
| the
| > | work
| > | > of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
| > | coached
| > | > the actors?
| > | >
| > | > Vale.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > | I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling
| about
| > | his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
| > | probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
| > | actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed
| their
| > | lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after
| the
| > | first try.
| > |
| > | Eduardus
| > |
| >
| > Eudardus, is that how they call what we have today: "restored
| > pronunciation"? I'm sure any attempt is an approximation and there is no
| > "correct" pronunciation, but how much of a consensus is there among
| scholars
| > today on the matter of pronunciation? And also, to what criteria do they
| > appeal (e.g., pronunciations in Romance languages)?
| >
| >
| >
|
| I understand that there is virtually a universal consensus that the
| restored pronunciation more or less approximates to the pronunciation the
| clubbable in the city of Rome in late republican times, a least compared
| to the modern ecclesiastical pronunciation. The last prominent latinist
| who thought otherwise was the great Antonio Bacci (more a paragon of style
| than a historical glottologist). To his credit, he came around to the
| current view on the matter after being presented with the evidence. See W.
| Sidney Allen's "Vox Latina."
|
| Eduardus
|

Rodericanus Eduardo pacem:

Thank you for replying. I've been wanting to purchase Allen's book for some
time.

Vale.

[Edward Casey]

Post by David Eugenius
|
| >
| > |
| > | >
| > | > We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some
| in
| > | Mel
| > | > Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus
| speak
| > | in
| > | > his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
| > | admit, to
| > | > hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge
| the
| > | work
| > | > of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
| > | coached
| > | > the actors?
| > | >
| > | > Vale.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > | I don't think we can fault Father Fulco at all, other than quibbling
| about
| > | his choice of ecclesiastical over restored pronunciation. This was
| > | probably his only feasible option though, considering the many Italian
| > | actors on location in Calabria. Of course many of the actors muffed
| their
| > | lines, but Mel (a la Ed Wood) probably shouted "that's a wrap" after
| the
| > | first try.
| > |
| > | Eduardus
| > |
| >
| > Eudardus, is that how they call what we have today: "restored
| > pronunciation"? I'm sure any attempt is an approximation and there is no
| > "correct" pronunciation, but how much of a consensus is there among
| scholars
| > today on the matter of pronunciation? And also, to what criteria do they
| > appeal (e.g., pronunciations in Romance languages)?
| >
| >
| >
|
| I understand that there is virtually a universal consensus that the
| restored pronunciation more or less approximates to the pronunciation

[of] the

Post by David Eugenius
| clubbable in the city of Rome in late republican times, a least compared
| to the modern ecclesiastical pronunciation. The last prominent latinist
| who thought otherwise was the great Antonio Bacci (more a paragon of style
| than a historical glottologist). To his credit, he came around to the
| current view on the matter after being presented with the evidence. See W.
| Sidney Allen's "Vox Latina."
|
| Eduardus
|
Thank you for replying. I've been wanting to purchase Allen's book for some
time.
Vale.

Eduardus Roderic(an)o pacem exoptat:

You're welcome. I would also recommend the tapes of Stephen Daitz and
Robert Sonkowsky.

cura ut valeas

[Larry G]

Post by David Eugenius
We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in Mel
Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak in
his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must admit, to
hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the work
of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and coached
the actors?

I'm curious to know if Greek would have been used by the Roman officials. I
thought that Greek was used in the eastern part of the empire. Was Latin
used in the Middle East part of the empire as well?

Larry

[zbihniew kagnimir ben-pretslava]

Post by Larry G
I'm curious to know if Greek would have been used by the Roman officials. I
thought that Greek was used in the eastern part of the empire. Was Latin
used in the Middle East part of the empire as well?

Actually, AFAIK they spoke Greek and there should be also merchants
speaking Greek in the movie, but nothing's perfect.

[David Eugenius]

"Larry G" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c24lbd$1npj80$***@ID-37509.news.uni-berlin.de...
| "David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message ...
| > Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
| >
| > We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in
Mel
| > Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak
| in
| > his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must
admit,
| to
| > hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the
| work
| > of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
| coached
| > the actors?
|
| I'm curious to know if Greek would have been used by the Roman officials.
I
| thought that Greek was used in the eastern part of the empire. Was Latin
| used in the Middle East part of the empire as well?
|
| Larry
|
|

My understanding, Laurentio, was that if Jesus did have contact with the
pagan world, it was in Sepphorris, and there they spoke Greek as far as we
know. I was not so much surprised, however, to see Jesus speak Latin as to
see Pilate condescend to speak in the language of a subject people. The
employment of translators is a possibility, but they're not mentioned in the
Scriptures. Still, that might have been omitted as an insignificant detail.
I thought Pilate and Jesus would compromise on Greek.

Although Greek was the lingua franca of the Eastern Empire, it is possible
that Jesus might have been exposed to and had some fluency in Latin even
there. Christ's reply to the Roman centurion who says "non sum dignus" might
have been in the same language, as it's possible His dialogue with Pilate
might have been in a kind of street Latin, yet not vernacularized.

Pax tecum.

[David Eugenius]

"David Eugenius" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:nX61c.21562$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| Omnibus pacem Rodericanus:
|
| We don't see Latin too often in the cinema. I was glad to see some in Mel
| Gibson's film on the Lord's Passion. It was pleasing to hear Jesus speak
in
| his native tongue (or something near it), but even more so, I must admit,
to
| hear him speak Latin in the scene with Pilate. How are we to judge the
work
| of Padre Fulco, who translated the script into Latin and Aramaic and
coached
| the actors?
|
| Vale.
|
|

Other Latin titles, besides "The Passion of the Christ" of Mel Gibson:

http://www.imdb.com/List?language=Latin&&tv=on&&heading=10;Latin&&nav=/Secti
ons/Languages/Latin/include-titles

Dvd. Eu. Rodericanus