Discussion:
how do you translate english names into latin?
(too old to reply)
xaverius
2006-09-16 16:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Quomodo nomina e lingua latina in sermonem anglicam vertuntur? estne in
interete situs, qui conversorum indicem nominum habet?

grates vobis habeo.

xaverius.
Johannes Patruus
2006-09-16 16:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by xaverius
Quomodo nomina e lingua latina in sermonem anglicam vertuntur? estne in
interete situs, qui conversorum indicem nominum habet?
grates vobis habeo.
xaverius.
Some here: http://freereg.rootsweb.com/howto/latinnames.htm

Patruus
Amanda Wieland
2006-09-17 04:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johannes Patruus
Post by xaverius
Quomodo nomina e lingua latina in sermonem anglicam vertuntur? estne in
interete situs, qui conversorum indicem nominum habet?
grates vobis habeo.
xaverius.
Some here: http://freereg.rootsweb.com/howto/latinnames.htm
Patruus
It's nice to have a Latin equivalent for a name but it's not absolutely
necessary. In the classical times, it was more common to simply transfer
a name and call it good. (e.g. David would simply stay David but it
would not be declined and it would be sounded out by the native
phonology. DAH'wid - cf. Japanese "Maaku" for "Mark")

So if you can't transfer it to Latin, don't worry about it. ;)

Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.

-Amanda
John Briggs
2006-09-18 14:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
Why do you say that Jessica isn't "that old"? It could well be as old as
Amanda :-)
--
John Briggs
Alan Jones
2006-09-18 14:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
There's a character called Jessica in "The Merchant of Venice"; so that
makes the name at least four centuries old.

Alan Jones
B. T. Raven
2006-09-18 14:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Briggs
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
Why do you say that Jessica isn't "that old"? It could well be as old as
Amanda :-)
--
John Briggs
Right. Probably older. It's at Genesis 11:29 (Iscah). The Hebrew means
"contemplatur." The unrelated Jesse (David's father) is an interesting
name: It means J----- exists and we all know what "esse" means, don't we?
North American Blacks often name their babies Jesse (after Owens, not
James) but eschew the name Jessica. The modern spelling of the name might
be from Shakespeare (Shylock's daughter).

Eduardus, conning the dictionary of baby names.

p.s. "Mary is 24. She is twice as old as Anne was when Mary was as old as
Anne is now. How old is Anne?"
Amanda Wieland
2006-09-18 14:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by B. T. Raven
Post by John Briggs
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
Why do you say that Jessica isn't "that old"? It could well be as old
as
Post by John Briggs
Amanda :-)
--
John Briggs
Right. Probably older. It's at Genesis 11:29 (Iscah). The Hebrew means
"contemplatur." The unrelated Jesse (David's father) is an interesting
name: It means J----- exists and we all know what "esse" means, don't we?
North American Blacks often name their babies Jesse (after Owens, not
James) but eschew the name Jessica. The modern spelling of the name might
be from Shakespeare (Shylock's daughter).
Eduardus, conning the dictionary of baby names.
p.s. "Mary is 24. She is twice as old as Anne was when Mary was as old as
Anne is now. How old is Anne?"
Good point, I was thinking of an English only sense. A name that's four
centuries old is rather young. i.e. I thought it originated from
Shakespeare alone but I didn't think of the Hebrew bible. If it does
come from Hebrew, it's pretty old and therefore I take it back.

As far as Wendy is concerned, wasn't that first found in Peter Pan? Oh well.

Thanks! I know you are all talented linguists and superb classicists.

-Amanda
Grant Hicks
2006-09-18 15:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Wieland
Post by B. T. Raven
Post by John Briggs
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
Why do you say that Jessica isn't "that old"? It could well be as old
as
Post by John Briggs
Amanda :-)
--
John Briggs
Right. Probably older. It's at Genesis 11:29 (Iscah). The Hebrew means
"contemplatur." The unrelated Jesse (David's father) is an interesting
name: It means J----- exists and we all know what "esse" means, don't we?
North American Blacks often name their babies Jesse (after Owens, not
James) but eschew the name Jessica. The modern spelling of the name might
be from Shakespeare (Shylock's daughter).
Eduardus, conning the dictionary of baby names.
p.s. "Mary is 24. She is twice as old as Anne was when Mary was as old as
Anne is now. How old is Anne?"
Good point, I was thinking of an English only sense. A name that's four
centuries old is rather young. i.e. I thought it originated from
Shakespeare alone but I didn't think of the Hebrew bible. If it does
come from Hebrew, it's pretty old and therefore I take it back.
As far as Wendy is concerned, wasn't that first found in Peter Pan? Oh well.
I was poking around and found this (http://tinyurl.com/yrzer), which you
might find interesting.

"During my family reseach [sic] I have come across the name Wendy twice
in the 1881 census of England, one born 1840, and one born in 1880. The
magazine Family History also states that Wendy, along with the names
Marian and Shirley were once boys names, and that in 1797 a boy named
Wendy was apprenticed to some one in Glos."

GH
Post by Amanda Wieland
Thanks! I know you are all talented linguists and superb classicists.
-Amanda
Will Parsons
2006-09-18 21:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by B. T. Raven
Post by John Briggs
Post by Amanda Wieland
Remember, some English names aren't even that old like Wendy and
Jessica. Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
Why do you say that Jessica isn't "that old"? It could well be as old
as
Post by John Briggs
Amanda :-)
--
John Briggs
Right. Probably older. It's at Genesis 11:29 (Iscah). The Hebrew means
"contemplatur." The unrelated Jesse (David's father) is an interesting
name: It means J----- exists and we all know what "esse" means, don't we?
North American Blacks often name their babies Jesse (after Owens, not
James) but eschew the name Jessica. The modern spelling of the name might
be from Shakespeare (Shylock's daughter).
Are you sure that Jessica is in fact derived from the Hebrew name Yiskah
mentioned in Gen. 11:29? I can find no evidence for it. The name is
transcribed in the Septuagint & Vulgate as Iescha and in the KJV as Iscah.

- Will
Will Parsons
2006-09-18 22:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Wieland
Post by Johannes Patruus
Post by xaverius
Quomodo nomina e lingua latina in sermonem anglicam vertuntur? estne in
interete situs, qui conversorum indicem nominum habet?
grates vobis habeo.
xaverius.
Some here: http://freereg.rootsweb.com/howto/latinnames.htm
Patruus
It's nice to have a Latin equivalent for a name but it's not absolutely
necessary. In the classical times, it was more common to simply transfer
a name and call it good. (e.g. David would simply stay David but it
would not be declined and it would be sounded out by the native
phonology. DAH'wid - cf. Japanese "Maaku" for "Mark")
I don't think this is really true. It's my impression that foreign names
were in fact as least partially assimilated to Latin, at least as far as
being given case endings. Biblical Hebrew names were in fact an exception
to this, but only partially. I seem the recall an ablative "Davide" from
an otherwise indeclinable "David". And although the names (e.g.) "Iacob"
and "Ioseph" are indeclinable when applied to the Patriarchs, the names
applied to ordinary Jews were latinized as "Iacobus" and "Iosephus".

Also, one couldn't in general "simply transfer" a name from another
language into Latin, as is done with the English names in the Latin version
of the Sherlock Holmes story mentioned in another thread, because essentially
the only language using the Latin alphabet was in fact Latin. So what was
typically done was simply to write what the Latin speaker heard in his own
alphabet, with modifications to make it fit to the normal Latin phonological
and grammatical patterns.

"David" couldn't simply stay "David", because it was never "David" to start
with, but a name written in Hebrew/Aramaic letters pronounced (probably)
something like [dawi:dh]. This was interpreted by the Greek translators
into a form spelled (commonly, among other variations) as "Daueid", which
by normal Latin practice was translitterated as "Dauid" ("David").

- Will
Robert FISHER
2006-09-19 02:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Wieland
Many Latin students try Guendia (Wendy) or Iessica (Jessica)
but they're not really classical. Oh, well.
What does it matter if they aren't classical? There's more Latin than
just classical Latin!

What to do with English names in Latin? There are many options.

In general, if you know a native speaker, you should let them give you a
name. This, unfortunately, isn't an option for Latin anymore.

Next, it is best to respect the convention someone uses for themselves.
If Bob wrote in Latin &, when doing so, called himself Bobius, it is
best to do the same.

Next, you can look for precedence. The Vulgate New Testament is good for
this, as are the Catholic saints. The more you look, though, the more
you will find there is little consensus through history on how to
Latinize a name.

You can look up the meaning of a name & do a translation.

There is always the Old Testament option of using the name directly
(after transliteration, if required) as an indeclinable. Ironically,
this is usually the clearest option. (I would love to learn more about
how to properly deal with indeclinable nouns.)

Then there is the crude practice of just adding -us or -a to the end of
the name.

e.g. In Latin I call myself Robertus Piscator. For the praenomen I use
the lazy "just add -us" method, although Robertus also has some
precedence. For the cognomen, I choose to translate.
Caligula
2006-09-19 04:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert FISHER
What does it matter if they aren't classical? There's more Latin
than just classical Latin!
Classical : tria nomina. Praenomen, nomen gentilicium, cognomen.
Caïus Julius Caesar
Marcus Tullius Cicero
Marcus Junius Brutus
Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus...

Romans had only 18 praenomina.

Aulus, Appius, Gaius, Cnaeus, Decimus, Kaeso, Lucius, Marcus, Manius,
Mamercus, Numerius, Publius, Quintus, Servius, Sextus, Spurius Titus,
Tiberius.
Post by Robert FISHER
e.g. In Latin I call myself Robertus Piscator. For the praenomen I
use the lazy "just add -us" method, although Robertus also has some
precedence. For the cognomen, I choose to translate.
Yes but it is not the Roman way to name somebody. For example when the
Gauls was defeated by the Romans and became Gallo-Romans they changed
their name. Epotsoviridus (father) before the Roman conquest, Caius
Julius Gedemon (son) after the conquest. If you want latinize your
name you must choose one of the 18 Roman praenomen, a name with -ius,
and a cognomen.
Robert is the German Rhodoberthus. Rhod = gloria, decus. Berth =
Lucidus, clarus... Fischer = Piscator. With Robert you have Lucius
Decius.
One of your Latine classical name could be Lucius Decius Piscator.
--
Caligula
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