Crucifer Vs Cruciger

[David Amicus]

I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.

But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?

Thanks!

[Ed Cryer]

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

It's the difference between "fero" and "gero"; very minor, like our
"carry" and "bear". I should think, however, that ecclesiastical Latin
would have set standards of preference pretty early on, and one would
have been used of Jesus rather than the other.

I'm struck by the similarity of "crucifer" and "lucifer"
(light-bearing). How early in Christian history was Lucifer associated
with the devil?

Ed

[John W Kennedy]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell
me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

It's the difference between "fero" and "gero"; very minor, like our
"carry" and "bear". I should think, however, that ecclesiastical Latin
would have set standards of preference pretty early on, and one would
have been used of Jesus rather than the other.
I'm struck by the similarity of "crucifer" and "lucifer"
(light-bearing). How early in Christian history was Lucifer associated
with the devil?

Pre-Christian Judaism.

[David Amicus]

Post by John W Kennedy

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in
procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell
me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

It's the difference between "fero" and "gero"; very minor, like our
"carry" and "bear". I should think, however, that ecclesiastical Latin
would have set standards of preference pretty early on, and one would
have been used of Jesus rather than the other.
I'm struck by the similarity of "crucifer" and "lucifer"
(light-bearing). How early in Christian history was Lucifer associated
with the devil?

Pre-Christian Judaism.
--
John W Kennedy
A proud member of the reality-based community.

There was a Bishop named Lucifer


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_of_Cagliari

[John W Kennedy]

Post by David Amicus

Post by John W Kennedy

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in
procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell
me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

It's the difference between "fero" and "gero"; very minor, like our
"carry" and "bear". I should think, however, that ecclesiastical Latin
would have set standards of preference pretty early on, and one would
have been used of Jesus rather than the other.
I'm struck by the similarity of "crucifer" and "lucifer"
(light-bearing). How early in Christian history was Lucifer associated
with the devil?

Pre-Christian Judaism.

There was a Bishop named Lucifer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_of_Cagliari

The ancient Jews, of course, did not generally speak Latin. But they
did make the identification of the Morning Star with the fallen Devil,
and Jerome used "Lucifer" in his translation.

[Johannes Patruus]

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

As terms with Christian reference, the difference would appear to be one
of usage, with "crucifer" typically functioning as a noun [1], and
"cruciger" typically functioning as an adjective [2]. The third syllables
are derived from different Latin verbs as explained in the cited references.

Their use as botanical terms is, of course, another kettle of fish!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifer
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger

Patruus

[David Amicus]

Much thanks all!

[Patricio]

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

This brings to mind armifer, which seems to mean armed for personal use, "strapped" or "packing," in the American idiom, and armiger, carrying weapons for someone else. Though I assume that antique warriors went about pretty much constantly armed, and that the armiger bore only those weapons of specific application. Or so I picture Aeneid 1.87-88.

Constitit hic, arcumque manu celeresque sagittas
corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates.


--Patricio

[Johannes Patruus]

Post by Patricio

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

This brings to mind armifer, which seems to mean armed for personal use, "strapped" or "packing," in the American idiom, and armiger, carrying weapons for someone else. Though I assume that antique warriors went about pretty much constantly armed, and that the armiger bore only those weapons of specific application. Or so I picture Aeneid 1.87-88.
Constitit hic, arcumque manu celeresque sagittas
corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates.
--Patricio

And there's a whole lot of other "-fer"s to relish -
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=end&lookup=fer&lang=la

Patruus

[Patricio]

Post by Johannes Patruus

Post by Patricio

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

This brings to mind armifer, which seems to mean armed for personal use, "strapped" or "packing," in the American idiom, and armiger, carrying weapons for someone else. Though I assume that antique warriors went about pretty much constantly armed, and that the armiger bore only those weapons of specific application. Or so I picture Aeneid 1.87-88.
Constitit hic, arcumque manu celeresque sagittas
corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates.
--Patricio

And there's a whole lot of other "-fer"s to relish -
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=end&lookup=fer&lang=la
Patruus

Looking at the distribution of the frequency count on this list--either high numbers or very low numbers--I'm guessing Latin started out with enough words ending in -fer that the suffix eventually became productive and people began to coin new ones, which either caught on or didn't.

Some of these neologisms also alternate between -fer and -ger with no apparent difference in meaning, e.g.: pennifer, penniger; lanifer, laniger. But it's only when these doublets differentiate meaning, like armifer and armiger, or crucifer and cruciger (though the latter no doubt happened post-classically), that both survive.


--Patricio

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Patricio

Post by Johannes Patruus

Post by Patricio

Post by David Amicus
I'm familiar with "Crucifer" the person who carries the Cross
in procession at church.
But I've recently come across the word "Cruciger". Could
someone tell me the difference in the meanings of the word?
Thanks!

This brings to mind armifer, which seems to mean armed for
personal use, "strapped" or "packing," in the American idiom, and
armiger, carrying weapons for someone else. Though I assume that
antique warriors went about pretty much constantly armed, and
that the armiger bore only those weapons of specific application.
Or so I picture Aeneid 1.87-88.
Constitit hic, arcumque manu celeresque sagittas
corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates.
--Patricio

And there's a whole lot of other "-fer"s to relish -
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=end&lookup=fer&lang=la

Patruus

Post by Patricio
Looking at the distribution of the frequency count on this
list--either high numbers or very low numbers--I'm guessing Latin
started out with enough words ending in -fer that the suffix
eventually became productive and people began to coin new ones, which
either caught on or didn't.
Some of these neologisms also alternate between -fer and -ger with no
apparent difference in meaning, e.g.: pennifer, penniger; lanifer,
laniger. But it's only when these doublets differentiate meaning,
like armifer and armiger, or crucifer and cruciger (though the latter
no doubt happened post-classically), that both survive.
--Patricio

When communities stand apart (as did Christians and pagans), then their
languages tend to separate as well.
The first thing you see on entering the Colosseum today is a large
cross, put their by a pope in memory of the martyrs. And in the
catacombs you see all kinds of things.

A similar sort of thing occurred with language in Europe with the
Reformation; Protestants and Catholics.

Ed