How many words to the wise?

[y***@yahoo.com]

Most lists of latin proverbs/mottoes include "Verbum sat sapienti",
with the translation "A word to the wise is enough".

Is this intended to mean that wise people don't neeed long-winded
explanations, as in, perhaps, "One word to the wise is enough", or
does it mean that wise people have the (truly uncommon) characteristic
that they actually listen to what people say, and so can learn through
being told something (as opposed to the more common "if it doesn't
hurt me, I'll forget it" model of learning by experience)?

[Ed Cryer]

Post by y***@yahoo.com
Most lists of latin proverbs/mottoes include "Verbum sat sapienti",
with the translation "A word to the wise is enough".
Is this intended to mean that wise people don't neeed long-winded
explanations, as in, perhaps, "One word to the wise is enough", or
does it mean that wise people have the (truly uncommon) characteristic
that they actually listen to what people say, and so can learn through
being told something (as opposed to the more common "if it doesn't
hurt me, I'll forget it" model of learning by experience)?

Educated people have more respect for words than the uneducated.

Ed

[Carusus]

I think the idea is "Say no more"
in the words of Eric Idle,
or
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse
(of similar origin, adapted for bats, I think)

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by y***@yahoo.com
Most lists of latin proverbs/mottoes include "Verbum sat sapienti",
with the translation "A word to the wise is enough".
Is this intended to mean that wise people don't neeed long-winded
explanations, as in, perhaps, "One word to the wise is enough", or
does it mean that wise people have the (truly uncommon) characteristic
that they actually listen to what people say, and so can learn through
being told something (as opposed to the more common "if it doesn't
hurt me, I'll forget it" model of learning by experience)?

Educated people have more respect for words than the uneducated.
Ed

[Gary Vellenzer]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, ycn228
@yahoo.com says...

Post by y***@yahoo.com
Most lists of latin proverbs/mottoes include "Verbum sat sapienti",
with the translation "A word to the wise is enough".
Is this intended to mean that wise people don't neeed long-winded
explanations, as in, perhaps, "One word to the wise is enough", or
does it mean that wise people have the (truly uncommon) characteristic
that they actually listen to what people say, and so can learn through
being told something (as opposed to the more common "if it doesn't
hurt me, I'll forget it" model of learning by experience)?

Latin is pithy. It means: I'm only giving a hint. My hint should be
sufficient for a wise person to figure out the whole story and take
appropriate action.

It leaves open the question of whether you are wise enough to
understand.

Gary

[Ed Cryer]

I've always taken the English "a word to the wise is sufficient" to mean
that a wise person doesn't need a long explanation, or, more often, a

long,

detailed warning.
The first time I saw "verbum sat sapienti," I was told it meant the same
thing as, and was the source of, the English proverb. I wasn't totally
convinced. It seemed to me there should be something to indicate that just

a

few words is meant.
Now, many years later, I (who am quite ignorant of Latin) think the two

are

synonymous, mostly because "verbum" is singular. Now if "verbum" in
classical Latin could mean something like speech or discourse, spoken or
written, in the abstract, then I guess the Latin might have a different
meaning. But what woud it be, that you only have to talk to a wise person,
you don't have to hit him over the head? That doesn't seem like much of a
proverb to me. So even if "verbum" could be understood abstractly by the
ancient Romans, I still lean towards synonymy.
--
Dan Amodeo

St John's gospel begins "In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum
et Deus erat Verbum". In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God (or maybe God was the Word)".
"Verbum" is a translation of the Greek "Logos", which has too many meanings
to enumerate here. I take it as "reason". That seems very Greek philosophy
to me. The Greeks saw reason as a full package, complete in itself. St John
equates it with God. Reason pervades the universe. It is divine and has
always been here.
Perhaps St Jerome would have been better translating it into "ratio".

So I take "verbum sat sapienti" as meaning "wise men listen to reason".

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

Erasmus (I risk getting tedious) recommends 'sermo'. "Atque ita citari
in libris Cypriani et Augustini, non existimabam quemquam fore, qui
offenderetur." I take this to indicate that Cyprian and Augustine used
'sermo' in translating or referring to this passage.
He also points out that it is 'ho logos' with the definite article,
THE word, comparing Aristotle's use of 'agathon', good, as against 'to
agathon', THE good, the supreme good. This is right, and hard to
reconcile with 'ratio'.
Presumably 'sermo' means 'saying' and expresses God's word as revealed
in scripture: what God has to tell us.

There's an excellent article on Logos in The Catholic Encyclopaedia;
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09328a.htm
All I would add is that I find it in Plato as well. It's the Demiurge of his
Timaeus.

Your comments about the definite article in Greek seem to support my view.
'God' has the definite article in St. John's original, and then there's the
common Greek phrase "'o logos 'airei" translated into Latin "ratio evincit".

Ed