Inkhorns are a fascinating linguistic phenomenon, ...

[HenHanna]

An inkhorn is a small, portable container used to hold ink. It
was a common tool for writers and scholars in earlier times, especially
before the invention of fountain pens.

Inkhorn containers could be made from various materials,
including horn, wood, metal, or even pottery. They often had a small
opening at the top for dipping a pen into the ink.

_______________

Inkhorns: A Curious Case of Words

Inkhorns are a fascinating linguistic phenomenon,
referring to foreign words or phrases that are adopted into a language
in a pretentious or affected manner. They often come from Latin or
Greek, languages that were once considered the height of intellectual
and cultural achievement.


Why "Inkhorns"?
The term "inkhorn" is a metaphor that alludes to the
scholarly or academic setting where these words were often introduced.
The inkwell was a common tool in the study, and the "inkhorn" became
associated with the pretentious or pedantic use of language.


Examples of Inkhorns

While the use of inkhorns has declined over time, many
have become so ingrained in our language that we no longer recognize
them as foreign. Here are a few examples:

Utilize: From Latin utilis (useful)
Magnanimous: From Latin magnus (great) + animus (spirit)

Ephemeral: From Greek ephemeros (lasting for a day)
Quintessential: From Latin quintus (fifth) + essentia (essence)


Latin-Based

Adieu: From Latin ad (to) + deo (god)
Gratis: From Latin gratis (free)
Plenary: From Latin plenus (full)
Sublime: From Latin sublimis (high)
Verisimilitude: From Latin verus (true) + similis (similar)

Greek-Based

Algorithm: From Arabic al-khwarizmi, referring to the Persian
mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi

Philanthropy: From Greek philos (loving) + anthropos (human)

Technocracy: From Greek techne (art, skill) + kratos (rule)

Pandemic: From Greek pan (all) + demos (people)

------- i thought it came from [Everywhere, Demons]

[Ed Cryer]

       An inkhorn is a small, portable container used to hold ink. It
was a common tool for writers and scholars in earlier times, especially
before the invention of fountain pens.
       Inkhorn containers could be made from various materials,
including horn, wood, metal, or even pottery. They often had a small
opening at the top for dipping a pen into the ink.
_______________
Inkhorns: A Curious Case of Words
               Inkhorns are a fascinating linguistic phenomenon,
referring to foreign words or phrases that are adopted into a language
in a pretentious or affected manner.    They often come from Latin or
Greek, languages that were once considered the height of intellectual
and cultural achievement.
Why "Inkhorns"?
               The term "inkhorn" is a metaphor that alludes to the
scholarly or academic setting where these words were often introduced.
The inkwell was a common tool in the study, and the "inkhorn" became
associated with the pretentious or pedantic use of language.
Examples of Inkhorns
               While the use of inkhorns has declined over time, many
have become so ingrained in our language that we no longer recognize
          Utilize:         From Latin utilis (useful)
          Magnanimous:     From Latin magnus (great) + animus (spirit)
      Ephemeral:         From Greek ephemeros (lasting for a day)
      Quintessential:    From Latin quintus (fifth) + essentia (essence)
Latin-Based
       Adieu: From Latin ad (to) + deo (god)
       Gratis: From Latin gratis (free)
       Plenary: From Latin plenus (full)
       Sublime: From Latin sublimis (high)
       Verisimilitude: From Latin verus (true) + similis (similar)
Greek-Based
      Algorithm: From Arabic al-khwarizmi, referring to the Persian
                      mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi
      Philanthropy: From Greek philos (loving) + anthropos (human)
      Technocracy: From Greek techne (art, skill) + kratos (rule)
      Pandemic: From Greek pan (all) + demos (people)
                ------- i thought it came from    [Everywhere, Demons]

English is so riddled with Latin (often taken in through French) that

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Ed Cryer
English is so riddled with Latin (often taken in through French) that
it's almost turned into a Romance language.

As someone pointed out here quite recently: German is made harder for an
English speaker to learn because so much Germanic vocabulary -- words
that used to exist in English -- has simply dropped out of the English
language.

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Ed Cryer
English is so riddled with Latin (often taken in through French) that
 it's almost turned into a Romance language.

As someone pointed out here quite recently: German is made harder for an
English speaker to learn because so much Germanic vocabulary -- words
that used to exist in English -- has simply dropped out of the English
language.

It's calculated that about 5.6% of German words are from Latin; whereas
English has well over 60%.

I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Bri

[Janet]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Ed Cryer
English is so riddled with Latin (often taken in through French) that
 it's almost turned into a Romance language.

As someone pointed out here quite recently: German is made harder for an
English speaker to learn because so much Germanic vocabulary -- words
that used to exist in English -- has simply dropped out of the English
language.

It's calculated that about 5.6% of German words are from Latin; whereas
English has well over 60%.
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

Janet

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Janet

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

I don't think either of those had much influence on English.

The English arived in Britain after the Romans departed, and they
conquered the Romano-British, and so imposed their language rather
than adopting the language of those they had conquered (though their
cousins the Franks did the opposite when they conquered Gaul).

But when the Norman-French conquered England in the 11th century they
brought their laqnguage as the overlords, and it exerted a strong
influence on the English, so many Latin words came in via French.

And the Renaissance was another infuence, bringing in a lot of Greek
and Latin words, which had higher social status.

So four-letter Anglo-Saxon words were rude, crude, common, vulgar and
churlish, while much longer words derived from Greek and Latin were
refined, upper-class (at least until the middle-class started to
emulate the upper-class, when some of them became non-U).

So a refined and educated female had a uterus, while a churlish one
had a womb. A refined and educated male had a penis, while a peasant
yobbo had a cock.

One could make a long list of them:

shit -- faeces
fuck -- copulate
and so on.

It's one of the reasons why English has so many different words for
the same thing, with the Germanic ones having a lower class status
compared with the Greek/Latin/French ones.

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

I don't think either of those had much influence on English.
The English arived in Britain after the Romans departed, and they
conquered the Romano-British, and so imposed their language rather
than adopting the language of those they had conquered (though their
cousins the Franks did the opposite when they conquered Gaul).
But when the Norman-French conquered England in the 11th century they
brought their laqnguage as the overlords, and it exerted a strong
influence on the English, so many Latin words came in via French.
And the Renaissance was another infuence, bringing in a lot of Greek
and Latin words, which had higher social status.
So four-letter Anglo-Saxon words were rude, crude, common, vulgar and
churlish, while much longer words derived from Greek and Latin were
refined, upper-class (at least until the middle-class started to
emulate the upper-class, when some of them became non-U).
So a refined and educated female had a uterus, while a churlish one
had a womb. A refined and educated male had a penis, while a peasant
yobbo had a cock.
shit -- faeces
fuck -- copulate
and so on.
It's one of the reasons why English has so many different words for
the same thing, with the Germanic ones having a lower class status
compared with the Greek/Latin/French ones.

I think you've hit the answer here with the Normandy French invasion. It
was complete and utterly changed Britain And it brought in a very strong
class divide. The feudal serfs tended cows, pigs, sheep; the Norman
masters ate beef, pork, mutton.

To step up the social ladder you had to use French language.

Ed

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

I don't think either of those had much influence on English.
The English arived in Britain after the Romans departed, and they
conquered the Romano-British, and so imposed their language rather
than adopting the language of those they had conquered (though their
cousins the Franks did the opposite when they conquered Gaul).
But when the Norman-French conquered England in the 11th century they
brought their laqnguage as the overlords, and it exerted a strong
influence on the English, so many Latin words came in via French.
And the Renaissance was another infuence, bringing in a lot of Greek
and Latin words, which had higher social status.
So four-letter Anglo-Saxon words were rude, crude, common, vulgar and
churlish, while much longer words derived from Greek and Latin were
refined, upper-class (at least until the middle-class started to
emulate the upper-class, when some of them became non-U).
So a refined and educated female had a uterus, while a churlish one
had a womb. A refined and educated male had a penis, while a peasant
yobbo had a cock.
shit -- faeces
fuck -- copulate
and so on.
It's one of the reasons why English has so many different words for
the same thing, with the Germanic ones having a lower class status
compared with the Greek/Latin/French ones.

I think you've hit the answer here with the Normandy French invasion. It
was complete and utterly changed Britain And it brought in a very strong
class divide. The feudal serfs tended cows, pigs, sheep; the Norman
masters ate beef, pork, mutton.
To step up the social ladder you had to use French language.

Yes, or to Frenchify your English.

The Latinisation of English happened in two stages, both driven by the
upper class, who were largely of Norman-French origin.

The first stage was the invasion itself, and the subsequent control of
England through ousting the local Anglo-Saxon nobility and replacing
them with Norman-French ones, who built castles to control the
populacve and put down resistance movements.

The second phase was the Renaissance, which aroused, in the upper
class, an admiration for Latin and Greek classical antiquity, and so
pupils at public schools were taught Latin and Greek in their presumed
classical forms (rather than the altered form perpetuated by medieval
bureaucracy) and so classical Latin and Greek regarded as high-status
languages and many consciously adopted neologisms were based on them,
including such words as television, automobile and the like.

Purists and nationalists of Germanic languages tried to plug more
native-sounding words -- in Afrikaans, for example, television was
"beeldradio", but eventually "televisie" won out.

In English there was a battle in publishing, which hasn't yet been
decided, between:

foreword preface
handbook manual

and so on.

[Silvano]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

I don't think either of those had much influence on English.
The English arived in Britain after the Romans departed, and they
conquered the Romano-British, and so imposed their language rather
than adopting the language of those they had conquered (though their
cousins the Franks did the opposite when they conquered Gaul).
But when the Norman-French conquered England in the 11th century they
brought their laqnguage as the overlords, and it exerted a strong
influence on the English, so many Latin words came in via French.
And the Renaissance was another infuence, bringing in a lot of Greek
and Latin words, which had higher social status.
So four-letter Anglo-Saxon words were rude, crude, common, vulgar and
churlish, while much longer words derived from Greek and Latin were
refined, upper-class (at least until the middle-class started to
emulate the upper-class, when some of them became non-U).
So a refined and educated female had a uterus, while a churlish one
had a womb. A refined and educated male had a penis, while a peasant
yobbo had a cock.
shit -- faeces
fuck -- copulate
and so on.
It's one of the reasons why English has so many different words for
the same thing, with the Germanic ones having a lower class status
compared with the Greek/Latin/French ones.

I think you've hit the answer here with the Normandy French invasion. It
was complete and utterly changed Britain And it brought in a very strong
class divide. The feudal serfs tended cows, pigs, sheep; the Norman
masters ate beef, pork, mutton.
To step up the social ladder you had to use French language.

Yes, or to Frenchify your English.
The Latinisation of English happened in two stages, both driven by the
upper class, who were largely of Norman-French origin.
The first stage was the invasion itself, and the subsequent control of
England through ousting the local Anglo-Saxon nobility and replacing
them with Norman-French ones, who built castles to control the
populacve and put down resistance movements.
The second phase was the Renaissance, which aroused, in the upper
class, an admiration for Latin and Greek classical antiquity, and so
pupils at public schools were taught Latin and Greek in their presumed
classical forms (rather than the altered form perpetuated by medieval
bureaucracy) and so classical Latin and Greek regarded as high-status
languages and many consciously adopted neologisms were based on them,
including such words as television, automobile and the like.
Purists and nationalists of Germanic languages tried to plug more
native-sounding words -- in Afrikaans, for example, television was
"beeldradio", but eventually "televisie" won out.
In English there was a battle in publishing, which hasn't yet been
foreword preface
handbook manual
and so on.

Please note, however, that Chaucer wrote before the Renaissance began,
but his Middle English had already lost the Old English declination
system and most of the OE conjugation.

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 08:27:41 +0200, Silvano
took me to a page that had NO information about terms and conditions.

Post by Silvano

Post by Steve Hayes
The first stage was the invasion itself, and the subsequent control of
England through ousting the local Anglo-Saxon nobility and replacing
them with Norman-French ones, who built castles to control the
populacve and put down resistance movements.
The second phase was the Renaissance, which aroused, in the upper
class, an admiration for Latin and Greek classical antiquity, and so
pupils at public schools were taught Latin and Greek in their presumed
classical forms (rather than the altered form perpetuated by medieval
bureaucracy) and so classical Latin and Greek regarded as high-status
languages and many consciously adopted neologisms were based on them,
including such words as television, automobile and the like.
Purists and nationalists of Germanic languages tried to plug more
native-sounding words -- in Afrikaans, for example, television was
"beeldradio", but eventually "televisie" won out.
In English there was a battle in publishing, which hasn't yet been
foreword preface
handbook manual
and so on.

Please note, however, that Chaucer wrote before the Renaissance began,
but his Middle English had already lost the Old English declination
system and most of the OE conjugation.

Aye, but that had little to do with the incorporating words of Latin
origin, either in addition to or are instead of the older Germanic
words.

[Janet]

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 08:27:41 +0200, Silvano
took me to a page that had NO information about terms and conditions.

Post by Silvano

Post by Steve Hayes
The first stage was the invasion itself, and the subsequent control

of

Post by Silvano

Post by Steve Hayes
England through ousting the local Anglo-Saxon nobility and replacing
them with Norman-French ones, who built castles to control the
populacve and put down resistance movements.
The second phase was the Renaissance, which aroused, in the upper
class, an admiration for Latin and Greek classical antiquity, and so
pupils at public schools were taught Latin and Greek in their presumed
classical forms (rather than the altered form perpetuated by medieval
bureaucracy) and so classical Latin and Greek regarded as high-status
languages and many consciously adopted neologisms were based on them,
including such words as television, automobile and the like.
Purists and nationalists of Germanic languages tried to plug more
native-sounding words -- in Afrikaans, for example, television was
"beeldradio", but eventually "televisie" won out.
In English there was a battle in publishing, which hasn't yet been
foreword preface
handbook manual
and so on.

Please note, however, that Chaucer wrote before the Renaissance began,
but his Middle English had already lost the Old English declination
system and most of the OE conjugation.

Aye, but that had little to do with the incorporating words of Latin
origin, either in addition to or are instead of the older Germanic
words.

Chaucer's vocabulary reflects his knowledge of both
French and Latin. Both necessary for his work at court.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/library/files/special/exhi
bns/chaucer/influences.html

Janet

Janet

[Janet]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Quite aside from Roman occupation, Latin was the
language of the Catholic Church and many legal documents.

I don't think either of those had much influence on English.

Something tells me you haven't read

Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_History_of_th
e_English_People


Janet

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Ed Cryer
It's calculated that about 5.6% of German words are from Latin; whereas
English has well over 60%.

Doesn't sound implausible, but I'd still like to see a source for
that with an explanation of the metholodogy used to arrive at those
numbers.

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Germany west of the Rhine certainly was. Check out the map of
cities founded by the Romans:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84lteste_St%C3%A4dte_Deutschlands

There's about a millennium between Britain being a Roman province
and Latinate vocabulary flooding the English languages. Sorry,
that idea doesn't hold water.

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Ed Cryer
It's calculated that about 5.6% of German words are from Latin; whereas
English has well over 60%.

Doesn't sound implausible, but I'd still like to see a source for
that with an explanation of the metholodogy used to arrive at those
numbers.

Post by Ed Cryer
I can't help but wonder how to account for that, since, when Latin was
the lingua franca of European education, German scholars used it too.
But Germany had never become a Roman province; unlike Spain, France,
Britain.

Germany west of the Rhine certainly was. Check out the map of
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84lteste_St%C3%A4dte_Deutschlands
There's about a millennium between Britain being a Roman province
and Latinate vocabulary flooding the English languages. Sorry,
that idea doesn't hold water.

Another feature in this question is the coining of new words.
Neologisms in English are usually pulled from Latin or Greek; but not in
German.
Helicopter = Hubschrauber
Aeroplane = Flugzeug
Computer = Rechner

I've always loved the German word "Durchfall". It seems to illustrate
this question somehow. Could it be that we English like to veil things
in an aura of respectability? I.e. we're somewhat pretentious?

Ed

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Ed Cryer
Another feature in this question is the coining of new words.
Neologisms in English are usually pulled from Latin or Greek; but not in
German.

But German is full of neologisms built from Latin and Greek roots.

Post by Ed Cryer
Helicopter = Hubschrauber

And "Helikopter" is a common synonym.

Post by Ed Cryer
Aeroplane = Flugzeug

Right. "Aeroplan"(?), if it ever existed, hasn't caught on.
... It did indeed exist, I found it listed in a Fremdwörterbuch
(see below), marked as obsolescent.

Post by Ed Cryer
Computer = Rechner

But "Computer" is a ubiquitous synonym, and you'll need to perform
a corpus analysis to see which term is actually more common.

There must be a bigger picture here, but I don't think you're going
to find it by looking at a small number of individual words.

Post by Ed Cryer
I've always loved the German word "Durchfall". It seems to illustrate
this question somehow. Could it be that we English like to veil things
in an aura of respectability? I.e. we're somewhat pretentious?

"Diarrhö" exists but is medical jargon. There you have touched on
something. English medical terminology as used by laypeople is
full of Greco-Latinate vocabulary. The equivalent terms exist in
the extended German vocabulary, but they are medical jargon that
is used when doctors talk to each other, not to their patients.
Something like "femur" is a fairly ordinary English word, but "Femur"
came up as an obscure term in a German quiz show. German medical
jargon is more accessible to me than to the average German nonmedical
person simply because I know many terms from English.

More generally, German has the cultural concept of "Fremdword".
That is difficult to render in English. In a linguistic sense it
means "unassimilated loanword", but in everyday usage it shares
connotations with "big word". A Fremdwort is borrowed from a foreign
language or coined from foreign morphemes, typically belongs to an
educated register or jargon, and can't be expected to be understood
by everybody. There are in fact whole dictionaries dedicated to
collecting such vocabulary (Fremdwörterbuch). This distinction
between native and foreign vocabulary doesn't exist in the English
language world.

Is that a reason Latinate vocabulary hasn't penetrated German as
much as English? Or is it an effect?

[Silvano]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Ed Cryer
I've always loved the German word "Durchfall". It seems to illustrate
this question somehow. Could it be that we English like to veil things
in an aura of respectability? I.e. we're somewhat pretentious?

"Diarrhö" exists but is medical jargon. There you have touched on
something. English medical terminology as used by laypeople is
full of Greco-Latinate vocabulary. The equivalent terms exist in
the extended German vocabulary, but they are medical jargon that
is used when doctors talk to each other, not to their patients.
Something like "femur" is a fairly ordinary English word, but "Femur"
came up as an obscure term in a German quiz show. German medical
jargon is more accessible to me than to the average German nonmedical
person simply because I know many terms from English.

Same for me, although for a different reason. I already said to new
doctors (cardiologists, urologists etc.), in German, of course: "You can
talk medical jargon (Arztdeutsch) to me."
Why? I have been living in Germany for many years, but I am Italian, and
we use quite normally in my native language words like "diarrea" and
"femore". Actually, "Durchfall" and "Oberschenkelknochen" are much more
vivid words, but only if you know German really very well.

Post by Christian Weisgerber
More generally, German has the cultural concept of "Fremdword".
That is difficult to render in English. In a linguistic sense it
means "unassimilated loanword", but in everyday usage it shares
connotations with "big word". A Fremdwort is borrowed from a foreign
language or coined from foreign morphemes, typically belongs to an
educated register or jargon, and can't be expected to be understood
by everybody. There are in fact whole dictionaries dedicated to
collecting such vocabulary (Fremdwörterbuch). This distinction
between native and foreign vocabulary doesn't exist in the English
language world.

Some German purists even tried to spread words like Zerknalltreibling
instead of Motor.
Source: <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Sprachpurismus> I'll
leave the task of finding a literal translation into English to the
German native speakers who read AUE.
Also, several loanwords do become assimilated after some decades.
Telefon is a loanword, but hardly anyone still says Fernsprecher today.

P.S. I read only alt.usage.english.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Silvano

Post by Christian Weisgerber
"Diarrhö" exists but is medical jargon. There you have touched on
something. English medical terminology as used by laypeople is
full of Greco-Latinate vocabulary. The equivalent terms exist in
the extended German vocabulary, but they are medical jargon that is
used when doctors talk to each other, not to their patients.
Something like "femur" is a fairly ordinary English word, but
"Femur" came up as an obscure term in a German quiz show. German
medical jargon is more accessible to me than to the average German
nonmedical person simply because I know many terms from English.

Same for me, although for a different reason. I already said to new
doctors (cardiologists, urologists etc.), in German, of course: "You
can talk medical jargon (Arztdeutsch) to me." Why? I have been living
in Germany for many years, but I am Italian, and we use quite
normally in my native language words like "diarrea" and "femore".
Actually, "Durchfall" and "Oberschenkelknochen" are much more vivid
words, but only if you know German really very well.

My ex-wife, whose native language is French, had to pass an exam in
medical terminology in order to work as a medical interpreter in
Australia. It was easy for her because of her French-speaking
background. The fact that she studied Latin in school (most Australians
don't) also would have helped.

Side comment: medical people often fail to notice that their jargon is
jargon.

Doctor: Have we passed flatus today?
Patient: No, doc, but I've sure been farting a lot.

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] Side comment: medical people often fail to notice that their jargon is
jargon.
Doctor: Have we passed flatus today?
Patient: No, doc, but I've sure been farting a lot.

That’s a failure on the doctor’s part, something he or she should have done
better. Our professional training exams mark us down if we get this wrong.

It’s routinely not particularly easy if the working language is one’s second
language. One of the reasons I listen to MDR Sachsen’s „Hausarztsprechstunde“
https://www.mdr.de/sachsenradio/programm/ratgeber/hausarztsprechstunde100.html
is for the non-jargon vocabulary. (It’s a radio programme aimed at the general
public.) Like, of course I know that a pneumothorax is a Pneumothorax, but
what’s equivalent to “collapsed lung” when speaking to non-medical patients?