Discussion:
Save yourself from...pig Latin?
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Letum
2004-06-09 08:32:18 UTC
Permalink
I've always wondered whether the classic phrase "Liberate tu temet ex
inferis" (Event Horizon, 1997) is actually correct. It's supposed to
mean "save yourself (yourselves?) from hell", but somehow it doesn't
feel right. Ideas, anyone?

And, speaking of classic sci-fi movies, what would be the correct
translation of "no flesh shall be spared"?

-L
Evertjan.
2004-06-09 08:47:38 UTC
Permalink
"Liberate tu temet ex inferis"
Liberate is pluralis, tu is simplex.

"save yourself (yourselves?) from hell"
Is "save" liberate or prevent from entering?

What is "temet"?

inferis ? infernis ? should be
"ex tartarum" ex+acc.

so:

"Liberate vos ex tartarum"

"Te libera ex tartarum"
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Rolleston
2004-06-09 14:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evertjan.
"Liberate tu temet ex inferis"
What is "temet"?
"te" + the emphatic suffix "met"?

"met": http://tinyurl.com/3gyvo

"tutemet" exists too:

[L&S, tu, http://tinyurl.com/2aa4h]

I.B

With an emphatic -te or -met suffixed
(only in the forms tute or tutemet, tibimet [...])

By separating and recombining:

Liberate tu temet ex inferis

->

Libera te tutemet ex inferis

?

R.
Johannes Patruus
2004-06-09 15:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rolleston
Post by Evertjan.
"Liberate tu temet ex inferis"
What is "temet"?
"te" + the emphatic suffix "met"?
"met": http://tinyurl.com/3gyvo
[L&S, tu, http://tinyurl.com/2aa4h]
You can also have combinations such as "sibimetipsi", as in:

"Notioni unitatis valde affinis est notio identitatis;
nam quidquid unum est, idem est sibimetipsi." (S&S p.80)

Johannes
Javi
2004-06-09 10:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Letum
I've always wondered whether the classic phrase "Liberate tu temet ex
inferis" (Event Horizon, 1997) is actually correct. It's supposed to
mean "save yourself (yourselves?) from hell", but somehow it doesn't
feel right. Ideas, anyone?
It could be "libera te tumet ex inferis".

--
Cheers
Javi
EA Bennett
2004-06-09 10:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Avete, omnes.

Perhaps "Liberate vosmet ex inferis" or as you suggest, "Libera temet ex
inferis" "Inferis" implies the lowermost regions; "infernis" and "infimis"
do likewise. I've seen all three.

Ernestus
Petrushka
2004-06-10 00:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by EA Bennett
Avete, omnes.
Perhaps "Liberate vosmet ex inferis" or as you suggest, "Libera temet ex
inferis" "Inferis" implies the lowermost regions; "infernis" and "infimis"
do likewise. I've seen all three.
Ernestus
"libera temet ex inferis" is, IIRC, how I understood it at the time.
"inferi" is standard for "hell". The only qualm I have is over the use
of "ex" - "ab" (or "de", for mediaeval Latin) would sound better to my ear.
--
Petrushka | Wellington, NZ
de_meun at yahoo dot com
Rolleston
2004-06-10 00:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petrushka
The only qualm I have is over the use
of "ex" - "ab" (or "de", for mediaeval Latin) would sound better to my ear.
There's one example of "libero" with "ex" in Lewis & Short:

[L&S, libero, http://tinyurl.com/2vpfz]

II.a.(d).

With ex: multos ex incommodis pecunia

The quotation is drawn from this:

[Cicero, in Verrem, http://tinyurl.com/23ylx]

aestimate harum omnium rerum pretia et cogitate in
his iniquitatibus unum haesisse Apollonium, ceteros
profecto multos ex his incommodis pecunia se liberasse

R.
Edward Casey
2004-06-10 02:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
Avete, omnes.
Perhaps "Liberate vosmet ex inferis" or as you suggest, "Libera temet ex
inferis" "Inferis" implies the lowermost regions; "infernis" and "infimis"
do likewise. I've seen all three.
Ernestus
"libera temet ex inferis" is, IIRC, how I understood it at the time.
"inferi" is standard for "hell". The only qualm I have is over the use
of "ex" - "ab" (or "de", for mediaeval Latin) would sound better to my ear.
--
Petrushka | Wellington, NZ
de_meun at yahoo dot com
For me "de inferis" conjures up an image of hell with a down escalator.
This is more post-modern than medieval, Tartarean-Sartrean, so to speak.
More precisely, "ex" is "out of," "ab" is "away from," and "de" is down
from. I chose "ab" just because of the phrasing in the Pater Noster:
"libera nos a malo."

vale
Petrushka
2004-06-10 07:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by EA Bennett
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
Avete, omnes.
Perhaps "Liberate vosmet ex inferis" or as you suggest, "Libera temet
ex
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
inferis" "Inferis" implies the lowermost regions; "infernis" and
"infimis"
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
do likewise. I've seen all three.
Ernestus
"libera temet ex inferis" is, IIRC, how I understood it at the time.
"inferi" is standard for "hell". The only qualm I have is over the use
of "ex" - "ab" (or "de", for mediaeval Latin) would sound better to my
ear.
Post by Petrushka
--
Petrushka | Wellington, NZ
de_meun at yahoo dot com
For me "de inferis" conjures up an image of hell with a down escalator.
This is more post-modern than medieval, Tartarean-Sartrean, so to speak.
More precisely, "ex" is "out of," "ab" is "away from," and "de" is down
"libera nos a malo."
vale
ROTFLOL. I was thinking of the phrase from the Requiem offertory text,
"Domine Jesu Christe, Rex gloriae, libera animas omnium fidelium
defunctorum de poenis inferni et de profundo lacu: libera eas de ore
leonis".

I wonder if that'd be a post-modern or a Sartrean lion.

But I like the image of the escalator much better!
--
Petrushka | Wellington, NZ
de_meun at yahoo dot com
Edward Casey
2004-06-10 14:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
Avete, omnes.
Perhaps "Liberate vosmet ex inferis" or as you suggest, "Libera temet
ex
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
inferis" "Inferis" implies the lowermost regions; "infernis" and
"infimis"
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
do likewise. I've seen all three.
Ernestus
"libera temet ex inferis" is, IIRC, how I understood it at the time.
"inferi" is standard for "hell". The only qualm I have is over the use
of "ex" - "ab" (or "de", for mediaeval Latin) would sound better to my
ear.
Post by Petrushka
--
Petrushka | Wellington, NZ
de_meun at yahoo dot com
For me "de inferis" conjures up an image of hell with a down
escalator.
Post by Petrushka
Post by EA Bennett
This is more post-modern than medieval, Tartarean-Sartrean, so to speak.
More precisely, "ex" is "out of," "ab" is "away from," and "de" is down
"libera nos a malo."
vale
ROTFLOL. I was thinking of the phrase from the Requiem offertory text,
"Domine Jesu Christe, Rex gloriae, libera animas omnium fidelium
defunctorum de poenis inferni et de profundo lacu: libera eas de ore
leonis".
I wonder if that'd be a post-modern or a Sartrean lion.
But I like the image of the escalator much better!
Or maybe a series of subbasements. These prepostions show how unamenable
everyday language is to logical analysis. "De" and "super" (in the sense
of "about") are synonymous. In "De profundis" the preposition is "out of"
and we can only get out of the deeps by rising (unless we can get out also
by digging). This tendency toward the coalescence of opposites seems to be
even more pronounced in Latin than it is in English (cleave, sanction,
etc.), maybe because of the former's longer history. This may explain
couplets like "accerso,ere" and "arcesso,ere" if they are not merely the
result of sound transposition but rather are frequentative forms of
"acquiro" and "arceo" respectively. Their later confusion may have
reflected the fact that to be called into the presence of authority is to
be told simultaneously "come here" and "stay there."

Eduardus
Rolleston
2004-06-10 15:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Casey
This tendency toward the coalescence of opposites seems to be
even more pronounced in Latin than it is in English (cleave, sanction,
etc.), maybe because of the former's longer history.
"immutatus" -> "changed" [http://tinyurl.com/24c8y]

"immutatus" -> "unchanged" [http://tinyurl.com/2h4gk]

R.

Edward Casey
2004-06-09 13:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Letum
I've always wondered whether the classic phrase "Liberate tu temet ex
inferis" (Event Horizon, 1997) is actually correct. It's supposed to
mean "save yourself (yourselves?) from hell", but somehow it doesn't
feel right. Ideas, anyone?
And, speaking of classic sci-fi movies, what would be the correct
translation of "no flesh shall be spared"?
-L
Sospita te ab inferis (a Tartaris).
"Omnis caro ad te veniet" (a quote I think)

no flesh shall be spared = something like "nulli carni parcetur"

I see a thread running through all this (Letum, inferi, omnis caro) Just
out of curiosity, do you dress like Johnny Cash?

Eduardus, porculus
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