Translation/confirmation considering the phrase "honor virutis preamium"

Post by John Smith
Hi.
I'm looking for a translation or more like a confirmation for the phrase
"honor virutis preamium".

Honour is virtue's reward?

R.

Johannes Patruus

2004-01-22 20:00:16 UTC

Post by John Smith
Hi.
I'm looking for a translation or more like a confirmation for the phrase
"honor virutis preamium". I do know what it means but I'd like to be sure.
More important to me is to know if it's "right" like that as far as latin
goes. What I mean by that is that is there something wrong if that phrase is
written somewhere just like that and alone. I'm not familiar with the latin
as a language so I'd like to be sure if it's ok to use that phrase in that
form. Thanks in advance... cheers.

Your phrase is a mangled version of "Honor virtutis praemium" meaning,
"honour is the reward of virtue".

The motto is commonly attributed to Cicero.

It's included in this family crest:
http://store6.yimg.com/I/4crests_1775_7773009

Johannes

Johannes

John Smith

2004-01-23 16:21:10 UTC

Post by Johannes Patruus
Your phrase is a mangled version of "Honor virtutis praemium" meaning,
"honour is the reward of virtue".

Thanks for that. That form I posted it in just threw me off the track a
little bit. I saw it in that form somewhere while reading about Ovidius'
work. That was included as a quote of his. I'm not familiar with latin to
that extent so I thought it's better to ask. That phrase (or rather the
meaning of it) has been my personal motto for a long time but it does sound
even better in latin :).

Post by Johannes Patruus
The motto is commonly attributed to Cicero.

So I've been told. Well I guess it doesn't even matter who said what. The
pure genious in its simplicity is all I need.

Thanky you all for this one.

Rolleston

2004-01-22 20:16:05 UTC

In context:

[Thomas Aquinas]

Praeterea, beatitudo, sive felicitas, est praemium virtutis,
secundum Philosophum, in I Ethic. Sed Deo non convenit praemium,
sicut nec meritum. Ergo nec beatitudo.

Quia fortiter in bello dimicantibus, et in vita et post mortem
aliqui honores exhibebantur. Honor autem est praemium virtutis.
Ergo circa huiusmodi mortem consideratur virtus fortitudinis.

[Cicero]

Hoc modo, inquam. cum honos sit praemium virtutis iudicio
studioque civium delatum ad aliquem, qui eum sententiis,
qui suffragiis adeptus est, is mihi et honestus et honoratus videtur.

Quibus pro tantis rebus, Quirites, nullum ego a vobis praemium
virtutis, nullum insigne honoris, nullum monumentum laudis postulo
praeterquam huius diei memoriam sempiternam.

[Dante]

nam, cum honor sit praemium virtutis et omnis praelatio sit honor,
omnis praelatio virtutis est praemium.

R.

Rolleston

2004-01-22 20:43:48 UTC

Post by Rolleston
[Cicero]
Hoc modo, inquam. cum honos sit praemium virtutis iudicio
studioque civium delatum ad aliquem, qui eum sententiis,
qui suffragiis adeptus est, is mihi et honestus et honoratus videtur.

Would anyone care to have a go at translating this?

Post by Rolleston
Quibus pro tantis rebus, Quirites, nullum ego a vobis praemium
virtutis, nullum insigne honoris, nullum monumentum laudis postulo
praeterquam huius diei memoriam sempiternam.

A poor example. The dangers of posting before reading...

R.

Johannes Patruus

2004-01-22 21:00:00 UTC

Would anyone care to have a go at translating this?

No, but here's a translation by E. Jones:

"As honour is the reward of virtue, conferred upon a man by the choice and
affection of his fellow-citizens, he who obtains it by their free votes and
suffrages is to be considered, in my opinion, as an honourable member of the
community."

http://www.gutenberg.net/etext06/7cbho10.txt

Johannes

Post by Rolleston
Quibus pro tantis rebus, Quirites, nullum ego a vobis praemium
virtutis, nullum insigne honoris, nullum monumentum laudis postulo
praeterquam huius diei memoriam sempiternam.

A poor example. The dangers of posting before reading...
R.

Rolleston

2004-01-22 21:26:12 UTC

Would anyone care to have a go at translating this?

"As honour is the reward of virtue, conferred upon a man by the choice and
affection of his fellow-citizens, he who obtains it by their free votes and
suffrages is to be considered, in my opinion, as an honourable member of the
community."

Thankyou very much. I was puzzled by the "iudico ... aliquem" bit.
Presumably "iudicio" = "choice", "studio" = "affection", "suffragiis" =
"suffrages",
and "sententiis" = "free votes". There are many different meanings for
these words, and it would take one more experienced than me to work
out which are optimal. There is a Spanish-looking translation at:

http://www.elalmanaque.com/Jun01/1-6-01.htm

I don't actually read Spanish, though. For all I know, it could be Portugese
or something else. The Perseus mirror you suggested is working very well,
thankyou.

R.

ps

What a nightmare! I've spent ages trying to set up my own identity on
Outlook Express
so I don't have to use Google for posting messages. I've been able to read
messages
using Outlook Express ages before they appear on Google, but only using
another
person's account (I haven't got my own computer). Although I could set up a
new identity,
OE just wouldn't switch to it. Now I've found that it will switch, as long
as a help page is open.
What a bizarre situation. And the stupid kettle's not switching off and the
kitchen's dripping wet.
Doesn't anything work in this world?

Javi

2004-01-22 22:01:24 UTC

Would anyone care to have a go at translating this?

"As honour is the reward of virtue, conferred upon a man by the
choice and affection of his fellow-citizens, he who obtains it by
their free votes and suffrages is to be considered, in my opinion,
as an honourable member of the community."

Thankyou very much. I was puzzled by the "iudico ... aliquem" bit.
Presumably "iudicio" = "choice", "studio" = "affection", "suffragiis"
= "suffrages",
and "sententiis" = "free votes".

Rather, "sententiis" = "sentences", "uttered opinions", "expressed
viewpoints".

Post by Rolleston
There are many different meanings for
these words, and it would take one more experienced than me to work
http://www.elalmanaque.com/Jun01/1-6-01.htm
I don't actually read Spanish, though. For all I know, it could be
Portugese or something else.

It is Spanish, but not a very good translation.

--
Saludos cordiales
Javi

Mood conjugation:

I enjoy a drop
You never say no
He is an alcoholic

(Craig Brown)

Rolleston

2004-01-22 22:28:19 UTC

Post by Javi

Post by Rolleston
Hoc modo, inquam. cum honos sit praemium virtutis iudicio
studioque civium delatum ad aliquem, qui eum sententiis,
qui suffragiis adeptus est, is mihi et honestus et honoratus videtur.

"As honour is the reward of virtue, conferred upon a man by the
choice and affection of his fellow-citizens, he who obtains it by
their free votes and suffrages is to be considered, in my opinion,
as an honourable member of the community."

Rather, "sententiis" = "sentences", "uttered opinions", "expressed
viewpoints".

Mr Jones does not seem to be in agreement with you. Since you
suggested "occasio calvata" as a translation of "seize the opportunity",
I'll side with him. Unless, that is, you can produce a compelling
argument why, in this context, "sententia" does not mean vote.
Lewis & Short give it as a possible meaning, as does Lewis
in the Elementary Latin dictionary. There is an abbrev. in
the L&S entry that causes me some concern, though.

Please feel free to have a look yourself: http://tinyurl.com/ys7z2

Cheers,

R.

Javi

2004-01-26 15:05:03 UTC

Post by Javi

"As honour is the reward of virtue, conferred upon a man by the
choice and affection of his fellow-citizens, he who obtains it by
their free votes and suffrages is to be considered, in my opinion,
as an honourable member of the community."

Rather, "sententiis" = "sentences", "uttered opinions", "expressed
viewpoints".

Mr Jones does not seem to be in agreement with you. Since you
suggested "occasio calvata" as a translation of "seize the
opportunity", I'll side with him.

??? What is the relation between "occasio calvata" and "sententiis"? Anyway,
you can side with whoever you feel like.

Post by Rolleston
Unless, that is, you can produce a
compelling argument why, in this context, "sententia" does not mean
vote.

I do not feel compelled to produce a compelling argument, but I can give
some reasons:

1. Contextual reason: "sententia" means "vote" in legal contexts only.
2. Stylistic reason: votes and suffrages mean the same. I do not believe
that Cicero would use two sentences with the same exact meaning one after
the other in the same paragraph. Also, I see a parallelism (chiasm) between
"iudicio studioque" and "qui eum sententiis, qui suffragiis adeptus est".
3. Etymological reason: "sententia" comes from "sentio".

Post by Rolleston
Lewis & Short give it as a possible meaning, as does Lewis
in the Elementary Latin dictionary. There is an abbrev. in
the L&S entry that causes me some concern, though.

What do you mean? Which abbrev.?

Post by Rolleston
Please feel free to have a look yourself: http://tinyurl.com/ys7z2

I have.

--
Saludos cordiales
Javi

Mood conjugation:

I enjoy a drop
You never say no
He is an alcoholic

(Craig Brown)

Robert Stonehouse

2004-01-23 06:28:46 UTC

Post by John Smith
I'm looking for a translation or more like a confirmation for the phrase
"honor virutis preamium". I do know what it means but I'd like to be sure.
More important to me is to know if it's "right" like that as far as latin
goes. What I mean by that is that is there something wrong if that phrase is
written somewhere just like that and alone. I'm not familiar with the latin
as a language so I'd like to be sure if it's ok to use that phrase in that
form. Thanks in advance... cheers.

Honour is the prize (reward) of courage.
Possibly 'of virtue', but Latin 'honor' like the English word mostly
refers to achievements in war.

--
Robert Stonehouse
To mail me, replace invalid with uk. Inconvenience regretted.

Rolleston

2004-01-23 12:29:21 UTC